Hey guys, it has been my experience that Pagan Mens' Groups, etc. do not work out well and only last for a VERY brief time--men often seem apathetic towards them and don't put in "the effort", whereas women often *do*! As strange (and heart-breaking) as this is, I would like to explore some reasons why this should be. I'm also concerned about how The Horned One has become so neutered in contemporary Paganism by both men and women, even to the extent that both genders are immediately revolted by the mere thought of phallic cakes for Beltane; seldome do men (again, in my experience) seem to allow Paganism to liberate their sexuality and "crow" about it with their Pagan brothers. Basically, phallic gods seem to make most Pagan men that I know very uncomfortable; but naked Goddesses are somehow fine! I see this same dichotomy in secular culture: a naked (or semi-naked) woman in advertising is deemed "beautiful"; but a semi-naked man (perhaps wearing bulging underwear) is deemed "offensive"! But, the crotch shot of a woman in panties somehow can't be?! *groan*

Sadly, I have seen and heard cases from first-hand witnesses were ithyphallic idols of horned gods were constructed at Pagan camps to great consternation by many women (it was only this gender that I had heard complaining about Him) who demanded it be taken down! When the Pagan sculpter posted photos of this same image to his local Pagan message board, more women that had not viewed it demanded that it be removed--it was (though not by the artist). *sigh*

Even within the corpus of Pagan magazines any that are devoted specifically to and by men go belly-up within a short time (as if men have no desire for with their Pagan brothers); but mags. devoted to and by women and their Mysteries are VERY successful (as well as "coed." mags)! Why do men not seem to desire male Pagan solidarity, Groups and newsletters or magazines?

Has anyone noticed these similar trends? Anyone have any ideas re: how these might also be remidied, or why they should exist at all?

Take Care,
Wade MacMorrighan
http://MacMorrighan.CovenSpace.Com

ohhh, yes, it is Noted and Documented! Being Male (yes, in my humble opinion) is not Socially Acceptable these days.... it seems that society its self is trying to do away with us as a group. All things truly male, such as Hunting, Shooting (firearms) and Power Lifting are only tolerated when they are completely gender neutral. Being a MAN has became socially offensive. Personally, I blame the Left Wing Liberal Media. [wink]

LINN wrote:
Personally, I blame the Left Wing Liberal Media.

You would! [lol][lol][lol]

Do you really think it's got that bad?

From my experience the witchcraft/wicca side of paganism tends to be more female orientated - but not to the exclusion and diminishing of the males involved. And without wishing to insult our male members, I think that in general women do tend to "group" better than men

But general "contemporary" (as you put it) paganism, seems, to me anyway, to be quite equal in the sexes - as it should be.

I have no experience of of being in company where the Horned one is "neutered" - if this is the case then it is, as you said, very sad - as it diminishes his very reason for being. Male phallic gods don't make anyone I know uncomfortable ( I am not decrying anything that you said - just putting my point of view across) and as to why they should make some people feel like that... I don't know.... perhaps some circles have gone too far the other way in embracing the feminine which as far as they are concerned has been kept down for too long - so all things male are "bad" - again this is just my opinion I have not experienced this.

And as far as men seeking out male solidarity.... surely one of the main aspects of the movement is balance in everything - so why would they want to?

I absolutely agree with you though about the way naked/semi-naked men and women are accepted or not as the case may be, by society in general - & as to the reason for this, I have no idea. I suppose historically it wasn't deemed "correct" for women to be seen looking at images of a naked man although it was fine the other way around so it has progressed from there... I don't know..... I'm sure someone can give us a good reason for it

Anyway... we are prettier! [lol]

LINN wrote:
ohhh, yes, it is Noted and Documented! Being Male (yes, in my humble opinion) is not Socially Acceptable these days....

Being a MAN has became socially offensive.

Well if men would act right.. we would let you come out and play more often..

[lol][lol][lol]JOKING!!!!!!
But seriously, like Cate said, we are just prettier... lol..

Oceansedge wrote:

Well if men would act right.. we would let you come out and play more often..

JOKING!!!!!!
But seriously, like Cate said, we are just prettier... lol..

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
well, I have to agree with That! ...but, I will also say that part of the "acting right" thing is that guys have forgotten how to Act Like Men. (think of John Wayne in "The Quiet Man" ) I think this comes from a lack of Role Models and certainly a Lack of Confidence. Here Again, that is just my opinion (as a Man). [wink]

[evil][evil][grin][lol][lol]Well, personally I would like nothing more than to create something that the male pagans will love! There I go being dirty minded again...[oops], Me thinks I here the train coming! But, on a serious note, most don't give the God much love, sadly most being men... maybe I'm wrong. I know you are lurking around,LD!!! Come out, come out, wherever you are![evil][evil][evil]

This may seem a strange way to view this topic, but whenever I hear of "men's groups" in religious circles, I am reminded of the Christian churches that require men to only talk to other men in the church, and the same with the women only talking to women. Granted, that is different here as I can see, but that is what comes to mind from my experiences and my wife's view of things. I can't begin to say how much she gets angry if I'm even joining in on a forum discussion topic if it has ANY other women contributing to the post. I think that's pretty narrow minded thinking, but that's how she was brought up. Just my thoughts...just musing...

David Darkfire

DavidDarkfire wrote:
....I can't begin to say how much she gets angry if I'm even joining in on a forum discussion topic if it has ANY other women contributing to the post. I think that's pretty narrow minded thinking, but that's how she was brought up....

Wow. I understand you say that's how she was raised, but to me, it would be rather stifling. Is there any jealously involved in her reasoning, or is it just some very strict religious "code?"

It's two-fold.

Jealousy...definitely. ...and yes, it was her strict religious "code" that said how men and women were to interact in their faith...which was seperately. Sheez...I couldn't do that! Even when I had a brief stint in the Christian church (a different one than hers) years ago...the men and women mingled and talked together.

DavidDarkfire wrote:
It's two-fold.

Jealousy...definitely. ...and yes, it was her strict religious "code" that said how men and women were to interact in their faith...which was seperately.....

Was she brought up Quaker, Amish, or some similar religion?