Seakla, I am happy to hear your daughter's witchy words. [tongue]But I do understand how you are saddened by her early understanding of how this world is. But I think she is a blessed child to know the truth about our existence in this world. Maybe growing up knowing how things are will drive her to be an extraordinary individual (Although I know she will be, lol.) that will help break the barriers that divide this world.

Live long, learn well, and love much.
-Kurt

FionixFeyer...what kind words, thank you!

My goal is to raise my children without prejudice and pre-recorded society biases. I hope they have an understanding of many things and see that we live in a diverse culture and accept it.

I feel the same way Seakla. I want very much for my child to grow up free from prejudices. I hope that my children and future grandchildren will be more open/free then I am because I am trying to raise my son to be open minded (not the way I was raised - my mom has a very black/white view of things). I just hope that the next generation will be less fear-oriented; I would like to be able to atleast say "I am not Christian" and not be gauked at.

I agree Luna. The other day I was in paying off a small loan we had taken out. The people in there are very nice, a little crazy and very talkative. So we were all joking and talking while she took care of my loan. There was a man sitting behind the counter talking about different churches he had been trying out. He then turned and said "waht church do you go to?" I simply told him "I don't." He said "oh, don't feel bad. I'm in-between churches too."

I felt like telling him "I don't feel bad. I don't go to church because of choice, not because a lack of options. I am not Christian, I am pagan."

But I simpley smiled and completed my business.

Seakla, the same type of thing happens to me all the time.

I live in Central Florida, I moved from Miami about 8 months ago, being born and raised in the big city I was used to hearing Christians talk about their religion every once in a while; but since I moved up here I find that people talk about it all the time and it is generally expected that you are a Christian too. They even bring it up at work (which I am not used to at all). I usually just smile and change the subject or not join in the conversation at all.

I am still in the broom-closet, sort-of, (if people ask I will tell them I was raised Catholic but I do not consider myself a Catholic anymore and if they keep digging for info I will say that I am a spiritual person and try to leave it at that.)

I just find that I do not want to tell people, I am a pagan-witch, because it would take a long time to explain my beliefs to them and I know at the end they will not understand it anyways and will probably treat me differently from then on anyway (and most of these people I have to see everyday at work, etc.).

I wish I could be more patient and be willing to be more open with them but being raised a Catholic I know that it is almost useless (in most cases-not all of them) to try and convince a God-fearing person that I am not into anything evil and that I DO NOT need to be saved.

It makes me sad, but thats just the way it is I guess. Maybe one day it will be different.

I understand completely what you are talking about, Luna. They talk about religion at work too and when we have company picnics or holiday dinners they pray beforehand never once thinking about the policy that states religion is a protected right. They just assume everyone is Christian and will pray. But I usually pray to my own dieties when they do that. But I do not bow my head or fold my hands in the traditional prayer-fold. I have my own hand thing I do and no one has questioned it.

When I am asked what church I attend I usually say "we haven't found one we like" or "I don't go on a regular basis." And then they either tell me about their church and to try it out or say "oh, girl, mee too...I need to go more often but just don't have time."

My daughters are now going to a Christian day care because it is the only daycare in our rural area that will pick the kids up from school. My husband is working now and we both get home around 5. There are daycares in town but they won't pick up from the school my kids go to and the school does not have an afterschool program. So...my girls are getting a Christian education. Kali, my 8 year old, tells me the only thing she doesn't like is that she doesn't know what they are talking about (I presume she means the Bible). And she said it is hard for her to have one identity at home and another at the daycare! lol I am tempted to tell the girls "go ahead, talk about paganism" just to see if I get any interesting phone calls from the director.

I wish I had another option but I really don't at this point.

Seakla, I am so sorry to hear about your daycare situation. [confused] That sounds tough. It would be VERY difficult for me if I had no other choice than to send my son to a Christian daycare. It would be interesting to see what happens if your daughters were to speak openly about paganism there... I can just imagine the directors phone call to you - LOL!

The same thing happened at work a few months back, we were having a luncheon and they prayed before serving lunch... it was a little frustrating, why do they assume everyone has the same beliefs. I just stood there and thanked the goddess in my own words and waited for them to finish. When I get asked what church I go to I say "I do not go to church" and they usually don't ask me anything like that again. I guess they get the hint (I have a very expresive face - whether I try or not you can usually tell my mood) that I am not going to talk to them about my love for Jesus - LOL!

Last Sunday I went to the corner gas station and the workers there are middle eastern - and as I was paying he turns to me and says "Happy Easter" and I was nice and smiled but it was funny and frustrating at the same time. This poor guy who I assume is not Christian (he might be but by his accent I know he is was born here) wants to fit in so he goes around saying happy easter to everyone, except not every American is Christian... but he imagines we are, I guess.

It's nice we can come on here and vent our frustrations... and not get chastised for it.[grin]

seakla wrote:
I felt like telling him "I don't feel bad. I don't go to church because of choice, not because a lack of options. I am not Christian, I am pagan."

Why didn't you? What could he have done? Is it really that bad over there?

Seakla, this is in no way directed solely at you at all, I just quoted your comment, plus what I'm writing I say with the greatest of respect because I don't know fully about where you live or what the people are like etc....

Yes, we all want to bring up our children to be open minded and free from prejudice but, to my way of thinking, for them to realise so early on that people vehemently hate other people for their beliefs, is building up a wall already - almost like creating a them and us situation for them to start with.

I've held my pagan beliefs for about 20 years give or take, I'm not bringing my two up to be pagan... they both go to catholic school which I have no problem with (primarily because it's the best school in the area) but I've made sure that they are both fully aware that there are other beliefs in the world - and what some concepts of these are, they know I don't believe in it and I also think that it's giving them a grounding in spirituality that they wouldn't necessarily get at a non-denominational school. When they get older they can make up their own minds.... I'll be happy whichever way they go

Are people seriously so narrow-minded over there that your spiritual beliefs would affect their treatment of you? I rarely mix with pagans over here and I can honestly say that nobody even cares what my beliefs are... I get the odd "oh the weather's shocking.... have you been at your cauldron again Kate?" comment - but they care about me for me, not for what I believe in - it doesn't make me any less of a person in their eyes. I have never experienced any negativity whatsoever in respect of my spirituality - I don't hide it at all... maybe I have just been lucky... or maybe I just don't see it when it's there in front of me - either way it doesn't bother me if people are negative about it anyway. If they have nothing better to do than gripe about people because they don't believe the same as them, then they need to get a life... & rapidly.

I'm not saying this is the case here at all - this is a general comment, it just seemed an appropriate place to say it, but it seems like a lot of pagans have a kind of fear of christians... almost like "ohhh I am a pagan... my beliefs completely contradict theirs and they will hate me and persecute me for it" - well so what? What if they do? They're your beliefs.... absolutely nothing to do with anyone else at all. The beliefs of Buddism are also at odds with christianity - do they hate them too? Do the Buddists care? I am really coming to the conclusion that we (we being a certain proportion of the modern pagan community) is magnifying this christian vs pagan thing to a much worse extreme than it actually is. I'm under no illusion whatsoever that it does go on - but surely not to the extent some would have you think it does. And I suppose that whether we like it or not, it's a fact that christianity is the main religion in the western world and while we expect them to have respect for our beliefs we should also show the same for theirs

BUT as I said - this is just a general comment, pointed at no one in particular and my own, probably very naive, point of view on the subject

Very well stated, Cate! [wink]

Cate...very well said! I do not chastise you for your words or take it offensively. Yes, I do think it is that bad here because their churches and religion are so much a part of their lives and I do think that I would be viewed totally different. And, where I work I need to be able to trust co-workers and work together with them. Even though the policy states that religion is a protected right. But, it is very tempting to say "I'm pagan" and I might just do that next time and see what happens. The people I have told do have a sense of humor about it and accept me for it but I am just leary about telling others...but that is just my personality. I don't like to make waves and I don't like to stand out or be finger-pointed at.

I don't really mind that my children go to a Christian Day Care...I know my post sounds like it. In all honesty. I don't really mind but if I did have the choice of a Christian one and a non-Christian one I might choose the non considering it is a good day care. But, this day Care is VERY good and the girls love it and the Director is awesome. We don't ahve to members of the church to have the children there so it is not like I am providing false information.

Also, I don't raise my children pagan...I do teach them to be accepting of all races and religions. But, they show an interest in what I do and want to buy their own gemstones and have their own blank diaries for a "Book of Shadows." My best friend is Christian and our neighbor is a Deacon in his Baptist church so we have diverse friends and the girls are accepting of all people. My other neighbor is an Atheist. My girls do know about Jesus and God and I tell them that is what some people believe. I have told them about a lot of differnet religions/beleifs and always answer their questions honestly and without prejudice.

Anyway, thanks for your post and please do not worry that I took offense...I applaud you for what you said. I just might try saying "I'm pagan" to a co-worker or stranger and see what happens.