Discrimination?

[Artemis_NYC]

Has anyone ever run into a Witch/Wiccan/Pagan, etc., whether solitary or part of a coven who claimed that the GLBTQ community is antithetical to the Pagan religions? I have read about these experiences in several places, but luckily, have never had one personally. Basically, the argument presented is that since only male-female sexual bonds are life-giving and reproductive, they are the only "natural" relationships. Again, I have never heard this from anyone in the flesh, but I have heard people complain about it in written sources, as well as second and third-hand. Obviously, this is ludicrous, so I'm not looking for defense, I just want to know if anyone has ever run into it. Thanks.

[Artemis_NYC]

Well, I'm glad the answer seems to be no, so far. [wink]

[Magpiebard]

Actually, on my campus... it seems to go the other extreme. The leader of the Pride Group here is also one of the leaders of the Pagan Co. They are rather rabid feminists who seem to delight in slamming ANYTHING to do with men, and to focus soley on the female aspect of the goddess. As I mentioned in a different post I was requseted to leave the Pagan meeting until I was "Able to come to terms with my oppression caused by men".

<shrugs> Just goes to prove that some people HAVE to have an enemy no matter who or what.

[JayneBond]

LOL "deal with your oppression?"

Oh my Goddess that is hysterical. I would have told them they needed new batteries for their vibrators! hahahahaha

Let's see, why yes, I have been the unlucky recipient of prejudice from a New Age group; which I guess is considered a subclass of pagans under some bizarre Judeo-Christian categorization. The funny thing was that this group had a "medicine woman", who had written many books, and was respected for her philosophy of "unconditional love" for her apprentices. She was all preachy about acceptance for one another, but at the same time I noticed right away that all the women were playing heterosexual (even obvious lesbians) at her apprentice gatherings. Apparently her philosophy was that if you were born into a woman's body you should just accept your fate and embrace your "female shield", and not operate as a homosexual- as this was incorrect for you to achieve enlightenment. However, it was also important for you to "live your truth" in order for you to achieve enlightement. So, being caught in the quandary of "if I live my truth, my truth is that I'm quite gay and am attracted to women", but "if I accept my homosexuality I am operating from the incorrect gender shield" I made a bold assertion that living my truth was more important than being my shell gender. Since staying in the closet wasn't living my truth, and it was killing me to do so, I decided to come out, and live my truth. The ramifications were like the TOWER: I lost my job, my family, my friends. But the best part was that I was relying on the support of my spiritual leader in this catastrophic time of need when my whole world was crashing in around me and I felt like I wanted to die; this guru decided to get rid of me too! Mostly because I disobeyed her gender shield ideaology and it was causing dissension in the ranks because others felt as I did, that it was an impossible Catch 22, and no right answer then for homosexuals to be able to be spiritual- it was like we were cursed. I rejected this notion, TRUTH does not operate on such principles of opposition, one or both of her basline idealogic framework principles was incorrect. Aaaaaah this inspired drama in the group which ultimately caused me to get excommunicated from my coven. The other apprentices were told not to associate with me because of some bizarre story they concocted of me going into other female apprentices dreams to have sex with them. (hahahahahahah...great stuff, you can't even make this stuff up it's so ridiculously great, because women love to have an evil villian to give their lives some excitement). So big bad, Jayne Bond, (the mild mannered nerd from New Jersey) was purported to be molesting the apprentices in the dreamtime- thanks to the dreaming techniques they taught me, and so I was expelled and banished and all the drama that goes along with it. The funny thing is at the time I believed what they said, and they made me feel very sad inside, because it is sad when people discriminate one another for any reason. There is no good discrimination as far as I'm concerned. But you know what, I think it takes a lot more power to stand alone and get stoned by others in your group, and watch as other freinds betray you because they are afraid to go against the High Priestess or Grand Pooo baa; it gives you character. So when people discriminate or show prejudice in one form or another I don't get mad anymore, I just realize they haven't allowed themselves increased awareness to realize how ignorant and unspiritual it really makes them. I think that the Creator of all things is very accepting, and doesn't really care that much about our silly little monkey politics or wordsmithing about who is right and who is wrong, and what is philosophy is the real deal. Chances are its all the real deal from one perspective, or frame of reference. So if the witches of Hollywood want to make me some wild hermaphroditic, Whore of Babylon, Illuminati Queen of Dreaming Dragons, and that scares them, think of how funny that is! That's because I think Goddess has a great sense of humor, especially when it comes to how we interpret spirituality, and especially with the lessons she tries to teach me about human nature. So just shake your head and don't belong to groups who are hell bent on deciding who is worthy, and find a group more into simple good vibrations towards one another.

namaste,
JB

[Artemis_NYC]

Magpiebard, you've obviously been through an ordeal. Maybe JB and I should help you deal with your oppression by visiting you in your dreams. We'll all bump our female sheilds together, until we can accept our fate.

[lol][lol][lol]

I am kidding of course, and I love you guys.

[JayneBond]

ROTFLMAO Art!

Bumping uglies in the Dreamtime I think has got to be the safest sex! hahahaha

Just don't be afraid...I hear I have quite a wingspan and long tail!
[wink]
JB[grin][grin][grin][grin]

[Magpiebard]

Thank you for the kind thoughts my dears... but not to worry. Its hard to consider something a hard ordeal when at the time it happens you start laughing in someones face. I just remember trying to get this TINY angry person to explain exactly how I have been recently oppressed. Maybe I'm getting to old for this but there is something amusing to me when a 5'1 elf attempts to literally push me around while yelling at my blindnes. ( I know I have mentioned this to you Artemis... but Jayne? Just so you have the visual firmly in place - 6'1 & sturdily built. In other words? Not moving when pushed by the little ones!)

I left, for fear of causing the leader to give herself a stroke, and went back to a pretty solitary worship. For me, so far, its been the best way.

But Jayne... That is TERRIBLE! There is something bordering on evil when a person in authority uses that hold to hurt those under them. I'm soo sorry that happened to you.

PS - party in the dreamtime at my place! Watch out for the zebras... and bring your own towel.

I've got the Cabo Waba...[cool]

[Artemis_NYC]

Magpiebard wrote:
PS - party in the dreamtime at my place! Watch out for the zebras... and bring your own towel.

I've got the Cabo Waba...

Wow, my girl must be making an honest woman out of me yet...what on Earth is Cabo Waba??!

[JayneBond]

Cabo Wabo???

Is that as in, "I got your caba waba baby" LOL

kids today!

I'm pretty sturdily built as well, I am playing defensive tackle for a professional woman's football team-- grown men don't start fights with me
LOL

AS for the elf...."take your MF keebler a$$ out of my face before I spread you on a cracker biaaatch" usually works in NYC.

hahahahaha

Remember what Nietsche said, "WHAT DOES NOT KILL YOU MAKES YOU STRONGER"


peace,
JB

[Magpiebard]

Oh. My. Goddess.

Oh dear Artemis.... Cabo Wabo is THE best blue agave tecialla (wow... misspelled but its 3:24 am so I will beg sleep dep) on the face of the planet if not in the entire solar system. If you haven't had it you must immedietly hie thy tuckus to Ohio and try a glass with me. (Jayne? Feel free to come along, this stuff is worth it!)

As to the elf? I retained my temper with grace at the time... but when she came up to my table while I was eating with friends and began to publically rant and rave at me I was forced to do what a woman must do.

I stood up, patted her on the head, and in my best nanny voice said (add a slight southern drawl to this as well. Its not my fault, but the more irritated I get the more southern comes out. IE my voice drops, I slow down, and I get so sweet it will rot your teeth. The ultimate in "I say this with love, sugar, but your momma was a b)(*&()* and your daddy was a.....)

"Dawling, the grownups are talkin. Why don't you run off and play." With this and one final pat I excused myself. Dumbfounded she went silent.

Until the next day when I had to resort to somthing more akin to your suggestion, Jayne. She actually came up and grabbed me. At this, I was forced to remove her arms from mine, lift her a foot off the ground and ask her if she was mentally deficient in some way. Did she realize that I could drop kick her across the grounds and not only not feel bad about doing, but I was pretty sure Bridget would be cheering me on!

Arrgh. Stupid people annoy me. Straight, bi, gay, or just really into shoes.... just don't be stupid.